Civil Rights Museum Employees and Black Officers

We have had discussions recently at this blog regarding the prospect of certain black officers being terminated at the Greensboro Police Department.  It has seemingly been represented by some parties that such an occurrence would be impermissible.

In fact, in our comment threads, one or two folks have floated the legal theory that the black officers have a "property interest" in their jobs at the GPD; and that taking away their jobs would almost be tantamount to taking away their property rights.

Of course, the system is rigged so that public sector employees are fairly invulnerable to being terminated or laid off. 

But we learn today that the local civil rights museum is having some problems; and is forced to lay off five employees.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that at least one or two of the employees might have been black.

Here are some big questions.  Do those five laid off employees have a "property interest" in their jobs?  Should they have been made invulnerable to being terminated?  Should they have a legal claim against their employer?

After all, if it is impermissible to fire black police officers for cause, then why should it be permissible to lay off black non-profit employees when they did nothing wrong?  Why is it OK for the civil rights museum to let people go, and not the police department?

Comments

[Harold]

Firing, laying off a union or represented worker in any industry is difficult without respect to ethnicity. Though, times are changing and the swing away from union representation and their rigid work rules is changing thanks to the likes of NJ's Christie. Somewhat the Obama admin is singing the tune as well especially when it comes to the need to fire incompetent teachers. The auto bankruptcies as well as non-union foreign automakers in the US have pretty well tamed the US union autoworkers.

Seven months and already the pink slips are flowing at the Museum. Not good. Planned for 200,000 attendees first year and only 40,000 showed up in the first half. If this continues soon all the employees might be working on a volunteer basis.

[DeSean Alston]

Joe:

I see you must be having a slow news day. It probably would be wise before you propose such questions and rhetoric to your followers that you confirm facts instead of posting with the assumption that all/most employees that were let go were black.

You continue to illustrate and discount a cultural double standard, which is not lost on me. But in the process, you inject bias, assumptions and what I believe to be a true lack on your part in finding answers or resolve and more an ill will to stir the pot even more. You make it hard for anyone other than those in your camp to even engage.

I'm sure you saw the absurdity of the two comparisons...the fact that you looked beyond that and decided to post anyway is not surprising.

[bubba]

"You continue to illustrate and discount a cultural double standard, which is not lost on me."

You, of all people, speaking of a "cultural double standard"?

That's rich.

The entire recent history of our city has been framed by a particular agenda-driven erroneous cultural double standard.

ALL our citizens have suffered greatly because of it.

[Joe Guarino]

DeSean-- if none of those employees laid off at the civil rights museum were black, then it would raise another set of questions. Would it not?

But these are serious questions. If the black officers are felt to possess job retention rights that are of such grave importance that they rise to the level of a political crusade, then why should that not also be true for employees of the civil rights museum? Why should they not have job retention rights?

[Brandon Burgess]

"The entire recent history of our city has been framed by a particular agenda-driven erroneous cultural double standard. ALL our citizens have suffered greatly because of it."

--As opposed to the preceeding 150 years when people like you drove the agenda and only some of the citizens suffered greatly. Now you want to take your country back. Not gonna happen, dwarf.

Desean, you know I am not a big fan of Skip's but still, I am perplexed by folks who realize how much work and money was put into the museum yet they openly celebrate shortfalls and hope for it's failure. This same phenomenon can be observed in the dialogue regarding the swim center.

[Joe Guarino]

Harold, yes, things are changing. But the public sector is still largely protected, and of course this sector tends to be a constituent of the Democratic Party.

It is fascinating that the civil rights museum-- led by key local Democrats-- has not been protecting the jobs of those employed at that institution. But job retention is one of the fundamental attributes of employment in the public sector.

[jaycee]

Skippy will toss the employees he has to pay in favor of begging more taxpayer $$$ for his own benefit. Just wait and see if that doesn't happen soon.
Typical Dem/lib mantra---"We can't survive without public funding. Line my pockets...please!!"

[bubba]

"--As opposed to the preceeding 150 years when people like you drove the agenda and only some of the citizens suffered greatly. Now you want to take your country back. Not gonna happen, dwarf."

The irrelevant little dweeb speaks.

Try again, son. This time say something that pertains to the actual subject matter at hand, rather than running your mouth like your mentor.

[Brandon Burgess]

Bubba, the fact that you claim to be SUFFERING at the hands of a black political cabal is just hilarious. That idea, coupled with the "take our country back" slogan of you and your toadies speaks volumes about where you and your movement are coming from. I wouldn't want to sign my name to that either.

Joe, I could see your point if the employees at the museum were fired for inappropriate behavior or if employees were being held on to at GPD in spite of the dire need to fire them over money issues but it seems you are comparing apples to oranges. And this being a recent development, the good christians of Greensboro may take up the cause; who knows?

[DeSean Alston]

Of course I can't speak for Joe, but I think he was trying somehow to correlate the two by presenting yet another cultural double standard, a theme that is consistent on his blog.

Would you not agree, Joe?

[Ken Hill]

How utterly silly to accuse Joe of wanting the museum to fail. If the museum was self-supporting, the taxpayers would not be paying to support it. And fiscal conservatives would be quite pleased. But it now looks as if funds from taxpayers (funds do not flow to the public treasury from non-taxpayers) to sustain the museum will be necessary. When those same fiscal conservatives warn of proposed projects that have the same potential, the slander against them begins. If private investors wish to put their capital at risk in projects, that is fine. It is their money, not yours and mine. But coming taxation policies will dry up private capital. Taxpayers, bend over.

[Joe Guarino]

DeSean, I do agree. The two situations do not need to be precisely the same. If the Democratic Party has created a situation in which public sector workers perceive an entitlement to job retention-- to the extent that it becomes a political crusade and a matter of ongoing aggrievement-- then the question is whether that also should apply to the non-profits they create with public funds.

And you are right, Ken. I do not want the museum to fail. I would have liked, however, for it not to have required public funding. But the decision was made by Greensboro's Masters of the Universe to throw taxpayers' money at the project... and here we are.

[Bubba]

"That idea, coupled with the 'take our country back' slogan of you and your toadies speaks volumes about where you and your movement are coming from."

We're talking about a LOCAL issue here, Einstein.

Pay attention.

[Doc Alexander]

Nobody wants this museum to fail, and self-described intellectuals like Brandon Burgess should be smart enough to know that (gosh, aren't they smarter than, like, EVERYONE?).

But certain facts keep getting in the way of the narrative by Brandon and his ilk, who apparently believe that folks who keep pointing out these cumbersome facts are actively rooting for the demise of this museum.

Fact: Skip Alston predicted 200,000 visitors per year.
Fact: There has been 40,000 TOTAL visitors thus far.
Fact: The Civil Rights museum did not hire a full-time marketing director (why not? No one knows; you would think that would be a pretty important job to fill, seeing as how marketing helps, you know, GET THE WORD OUT about the museum)
Fact: The civil rights museum is not equipped to accomodate single person self-guided tours
Fact: Local hotels in downtown Greensboro did not have brochures on the Civil Rights Museum (maybe that's why they want to build a new luxury hotel; for all their new brochures!!)
Fact: Mr. Alston predicted visitors from all over the country to come to the new civil rights museum
Fact: more than 90% of the visitors have come from North Carolina, and the majority of that 90% have come from right here in the good ol' Triad
Fact: The Civil Rights Museum has failed to live up to its hype as the centerpiece of the new downtown Greensboro experience and very soon Guilford County taxpayers will be on the hook for keeping its doors open.

I love downtown Greensboro but I hate being taken for a ride.

[Joe Guarino]

Doc, it appears that those five employees who were laid off have been the victim of some very poor management. Some of us have started and/or helped manage businesses, in the for-profit and non-profit sectors, and have never had to lay off an employee.

[Doc Alexander]

How something that was 16 years in the planning could be launched in such a poor manner with so few of the necessary pieces in place is beyond me. For God sake the place did not even have headsets or remote transmitters for self-guided tours.

[Harold]

Non-profits are hurting everywhere in this economy. Giving is down. Many private colleges are having to tap the principal of their endowments to keep the doors open. Scary times. Difficult to open any business let alone a museum which largely depends on entrance fees in dire economic times such as this. Hope they make it. Doc has a point about self guided tours. That oughta be a no-brainer

[George Hartzman]

Just Posted at Triad Watch: "Museum Math"

"Civil rights museum cuts five from staff

Five full-time employees, including an assistant to the curator and an information technology specialist, have lost their jobs as part of a restructuring at the International Civil Rights Center & Museum...

The move, which could shave $250,000 from the $3.1 million operating budget...

The museum, with nine full-time and 11 part-time positions remaining..."

Nancy McLaughlin
Greensboro News & Record

.
If 5 lost jobs could save $250,000, 5 / $250,000 = $50,000 per full time position

If there are 9 full time employees 9 x $50,000 = $450,000

If 11 part times positions pay $12,500 each, 11 x $12,500 = $137,500

If $450,000 + $250,000 + $137,500 = a $837,500 payroll,
with a $3.1 million budget...

$3,100,000 - $837,500 = $2,262,500

On what is the museum spending $2,262,500 every year?
.
.
Think a news "reporter" will ask?

[DeSean Alston]

Fact: The Civil Rights museum did not hire a full-time marketing director (why not? No one knows; you would think that would be a pretty important job to fill, seeing as how marketing helps, you know, GET THE WORD OUT about the museum)
-Doc Alexander

News & Record
Civil rights museum cuts five from staff
By Nancy McLaughlin
Staff Writer

"The marketing director’s salary should save nearly half the $100,000 the museum now pays as a client of RLF Communications, Alston said."

Oh, Doc. Just because you actually type the word 'Fact' does not make it so. Jus sayin'.

RLF Communications
http://www.rlfcommunications.com/work/civilrightscenter.php

[Brandon Burgess]

Doc, I never said Joe wanted the museum to fail but I have heard quite a few people wish for it to fail. But you are to smart to let that change your view, right? I do find it interesting that some folks who have nothing positive to say about the museum always find something to say in defense of the confederacy when that issue comes up on the blogs.

[Bubba]

And now, in addition to professing absolute wisdom of the past 150 years of American social history, we have this:

"I do find it interesting that some folks who have nothing positive to say about the museum always find something to say in defense of the confederacy when that issue comes up on the blogs."

Brandon Burgess, Professor of American Hysteria....ummm, History, has spoken.

He said it.

He believes it.

That settles it.

He's been well taught by his mentor, don't you think?

[triadwatch]

we all need to remember that RLF is the same company who came up with the dumbest marketing campaign for google for greensboro. Having these people http://googlegreensboro.com/google-in-greensboro/ hang out at the ACC tournament was absurd then getting the $10,000 contract from Greensboro amazing.

[Brandon Burgess]

"And now, in addition to professing absolute wisdom of the past 150 years of American social history..."

--No bobba, I just refuse to ignore/forget the historical relationship between the white political establishment and black citizens in Greensboro and how that affects the way things are done today.

Go ahead and post some more trash about how you have been victimized and are suffering. It really is good stuff.

Joe, we all know that some local christians have defended black officers who were disciplined by Bellamy, Young, Crotts and Miller. But again, I just don't see how that relates to what is happening at the civil rights museum. I mean, one minute folks are complaining about the management of this place and the next minute they are complaining about the firing of employees who aren't needed along with the hiring of a needed marketing director. What gives?

[jaycee]

Brandon Burgess said:
"--No bobba, I just refuse to ignore/forget the historical relationship between the white political establishment and black citizens in Greensboro and how that affects the way things are done today."

Really? How old are you that you remember this?

[Brandon Burgess]

How old are you that senility has eroded that much of your memory?

Do you want to see the museum shut down or are you happy that they are cutting expenses and hiring a marketing director to help reach their attendance goals?

[Stormy]

" the assumption that all/most employees that were let go were black"

So, to answer the question at hand, were they or were they not? It seems that question has not been answered.

Brandon, just a short while ago, you were a reasonable debater and poster here. But, something has happened to you. You seem to have adopted the Roch Smith school of insulting others in a brash manner. How about you drop the radical pose and go back to being the reasonable person? You don't handle the Roch Smith snit very well.

[jaycee]

Brandon, how old are you? You indicate that you "remember" the historical relationship between the white political establishment and black citizens in Greensboro. How man years back does your memory go?
Let's get up a pool...I'm betting 25 y/o or under. Anybody else in??

[Brandon Burgess]

Wrong Jaycee.

Stormy, maybe you can help me understand the connection Joe is trying to make between employees at GPD vs those at the museum.

[Stormy]

jaycee,

I'm taking the under on that. And, I'll up the bet that Brandon lives in the basement of his parents home, doesn't have a real job, and blogs in his underwear.

[Brandon Burgess]

Real nice coming from a man/woman to cowardly to sign a name. I'll assume that your non-response means that your are just as confused as me about the motive or meaning of Joe's post.

[Doc Alexander]

Brandon how you jumped from a debate on the facts of how poorly the Civil Rights Museum is doing to defending the confederacy is absolutely unfathomable. Where did that come from?

Are you so intellectually dishonest that you cannot make your point without resorting to some absurd ad hominem attack that is utterly without merit and appropos of nothing?

If that's the best you can do, stick to Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos. At least your meaningless rants wouldn't be so off the chart at those blogs. Hell, they'd probably give you a wing of your own there.

[Doc Alexander]

Desean, hiring a marketing consultant is not the same thing has having a full-time on-site marketing director. Big difference. Maybe this new marketing director that your dad wants to hire will help the museum gather in the 160,000 missing visitors they were expecting.

[Stormy]

Brandon, your non-response indicates that you do live in your parents' basement and blog in your underwear. Come on back into the light, Brandon. The dark side doesn't become you.

[Enough]

The only way the museum survives on its own is if all the school kids in a particular grade in the city, county, and state are bussed in and forced to attend. If this museum remains a voluntary choice, it will probably fail unless the taxpayers make up the shortfall.

[Doc Alexander]

So if that's the case, if the only way for this museum to survive is field trips from area schools, what's the purpose of the luxury hotel across the street?

One of the big selling points for this hotel was its proximity to the Civil Rights Museum.

BTW is it politically incorrect to refer to the Civil Rights Museum as a "white elephant?"

[Brandon Burgess]

"Brandon how you jumped from a debate on the facts of how poorly the Civil Rights Museum is doing to defending the confederacy is absolutely unfathomable. Where did that come from?"

--Doc, maybe you can help me understand how the firing of employees at the museum for money reasons relates to the firing of police officers who misbehave. I'm' having trouble there.

I think I know the direction Joe is going with this but I'd like someone to spell it out since it seems most here agree with him.

And Doc, I don't recall you or your buddies chastising bubba for his ad hominem attacks in other threads or for bringing up his "victimized white christian male" bs in a thread about a museum. Hypocrite.

But back to the topic. Help me understand the double standard that is so obvious to the rest of you. If it exists, it should be pretty simple to put into words, right? All I can think of is that Joe expects the christians to stand up for the civil rights museum workers like they have police department employees but they haven't yet. I'm guessing that Joe is putting forth the argument that a double standard exists because the christians won't protest the firing of black employees by Skip because he to is black but we know that is a faulty argument because the ministers protested Tim Bellamy and Rashad Young for their actions. So, what gives?

[Brandon Burgess]

"Brandon how you jumped from a debate on the facts of how poorly the Civil Rights Museum is doing..."

--Read carefully. That is not what this post is about, dwarf.

[Bubba]

Our favorite little dingledork has spoken.

Get help for your problem, little buddy.

[Joe Guarino]

Brandon, the ministers protested Bellamy and Young because they perceived these two men were inappropriately acceding to a white power structure. They won't protest the Civil Rights Museum because it is a black institution, and because they are not truly serious about the issue of job retention. Instead, they have a longstanding grudge against the Police Department, and this animates their actions. Moreover, job loss associated with allegations of discrimination are apparently worth fighting against; but job loss due to incompetent management is not, at least in this circumstance.

But of course, the political tradition with which they are affiliated demands job retention both in the public sector and also in unionized work environments.

[Doc Alexander]

Hey, Brandon just called me a dwarf! Cool! Does that mean I'm in the club?

[Brandon Burgess]

Joe, I can buy that. Thank you for clarifying. I still say it's to early to tell where the good reverands stand. With regard to the PAC and the landfill, do you expect we will see Kee catch as much crap as Barber did?

[Joe Guarino]

I don't know. Some folks from east Greensboro will view it as a betrayal if anything more is done at White Street. There will be some political price; but the criticism might not necessarily be virulent and bitter, at least out in open for all of us to see. I don't know if it would become a huge problem for him.

[Stormy]

Brandon - I think I know the direction Joe is going with this but I'd like someone to spell it out since it seems most here agree with him.

If you know that Brandon, why does anyone need to spell it out for you?

If's well after noon, Brandon, time to get a shower and get some clothes on. And, maybe go look for a real job. Blogging in your parent's basement doesn't pay that well.

[Brandon Burgess]

What do you do for a living Stormy?

[jaycee]

Brandon, how old are you? What are you hiding?

[Stormy]

Brandon, answer my questions, and than, I'll answer yours. But, yes, I have been meaningfully employed in private buisness since I was 16 years old. Never worked for the government. I do not live, nor have I ever, in my parents' basement, and I do not blog in my underwear. I am a college graduate, and I have a family for which I have always provided for their needs. I have always paid my taxes on time, and they are substantial.

Do you have a job and if so what do you do? Do you live in your parents' basement? Do you blog in your underwear all day?

[Brandon Burgess]

I have worked full time since I was 16. I am a house painter and a college student. I am 26 and have been responsible enough to not yet start a family (quite a feat for a man my age). I do live with my mother and brothers though that hasn't always been the case. We do not have a basement.

[Stormy]

Okay, Brandon. Now, let me ask you what course of studies you are pursuing in college?

[Brandon Burgess]

I attend GTCC to save money on my first 2 years but plan on transferring to a university in the next couple of semesters to study human biology or microbiology. I also completed my EMT Basic at GTCC this summer. Long term- I am thinking about PA school.

[Jerry Bledsoe]

Brandon,
I don't have a clue who you are. But I respect your expressed dreams and admire your efforts to achieve them. At your age you should focus on that. Forget about blogging and responding to comments. That is useless and wasted effort unless you have some overwhelming political purpose. The Internet is great for gaining information. Depend on it for that. Ignore it otherwise. I suspect you will profit greatly. I wish you well.