Episcopal Involvement in Protests against GPD Discipline a Manifestation of Misplaced Priorities

The Greensboro Pulpit Forum has co-opted the support of a major, mainline Protestant denomination in its efforts to protect black GPD officers from being disciplined.  Various clergy with the Episcopal Church have taken on this issue as a cause.  They are presumably doing this as a manifestation of their "social justice" orientation.

We had previously discussed the ethically bankrupt nature of this approach several months ago in connection with  First Presbyterian Church, the Presbyterian Church USA, and other mainline denominations-- especially those within the National Council of Churches.  The Episcopal Church falls in this category. 

The Episcopal clergy getting involved in this issue don't know all the facts regarding the individual cases involved.  They have no idea of the risks involved when an employer-- especially a public sector employer-- terminates a minority employee.  It is unlikely that the City of Greensboro, which has a black city manager and which is controlled in part by a black political machine, would take these disciplinary decisions lightly.

It is more disturbing that these Episcopal clergy would seek to undermine efforts to restore discipline within the department.  This is particularly problematic given the troubled history of the GPD, which is partially rooted in the historic political prohibition on holding minority officers accountable within the department. 

(As usual, BTW, we do not hear the outcries of the separationists when the religious left attempts to influence the actions of government).

Sometimes churches lose sight of what their primary missions should be.  A great article that illustrates the manner in which the Episcopal Church has gone astray is found here.  (HT: Stormy).

Episcopalians in Greensboro who are distraught about the direction of their church, but who wish to remain within the Anglican tradition, have an alternative in Greensboro.  It is St. John's Anglican Church, located on W. Friendly Ave. 

Comments

[Brian Clarey]

Joe:
Making a list of the people of whom you disapprove. So far I've got:

Episcopalians
"Liberals"
Ed Cone
The Pulpit Forum gang
Everyone at the N&R
Everyone, for that matter, at every newspaper in town except for the Rhino
Non-conservative city council and county commission members
City staff
Black cops
People who like porn
Roch Smith Jr.
People who voted for Barack Obama

Granted, this is just a partial list, but even as it stands, that's a pretty big tent you got going there dude.

[Joe Guarino]

Brian, "disapprove" in many cases could mean "disagree". "Everyone" is a pretty strong word. Broad categories often include many good people.

Many folks have left the Episcopal Church. One of the major growth industries in the United States is comprised of various conservative Anglican denominations that have formed, and that are oft populated by former Episcopalians.

[Mick]

Minions of Cone
Dwarves
Meldric con Simpkins etc
GAC supporters
First Presbyterian Church

And Joe I think Brian's "disapprove" is a much more accurate description of your typical M.O.

[Joe Guarino]

Mick, I appreciate the thought that both you and Brian have put into your lists. You have both obviously been faithful readers, and I appreciate that very much.

[Brian Clarey]

I'm here all the time, Joe. Thought you knew that. And I have a few groups to add.

Action Greensboro
The Greensboro Partnership
People who punch Republicans in the mouth
White Street residents who don't like living near landfill
The unemployed
Teachers unions
All other unions
ACC VIPs
The situationally ethical
SuperJam attendees
Community organizers
Black people who vote their self-interest

This is fun! Got to put the paper to bed, but I'll be back when I can think of more.

[Wayne Stutts]

I am sick of this BS. Nelson Johnson came into town to cause trouble and its been that way ever since and Brian and all of the above have found something that I haven't found. Our police department is a damn joke. Who do these so called ministers worship? I worship JESUS CHRIST and I have serious doubt about them. My understanding of my religion is to spread the GOOD NEWS and help as many people as I possibly can- not stir up trouble by backing any cause simply because of race. Doesn't truth matter anymore?

[Joe Guarino]

Wow! You really have been a regular reader, Brian.

Of course, nearly all of the groups you mention are rock-solid members of the liberal/Democratic coalition. This is a blog that expresses opinion from a conservative perspective.

Among some of the groups you mention, the problem is more with the leadership than with the members. That is probably true of the Episcopal Church.

[Mick]

We agree on more than you would ever guess but you make it difficult sometimes.

[Bubba]

"....the problem is more with the leadership than with the members. That is probably true of the Episcopal Church."

I'm living testimony to that statement. People like James Pike and John Shelby Spong caused me to become a lapsed Episcopalian.

[Bubba]

"I'll be back when I can think of more."

We'll be here.

Do you need any help extending your list?

[Bubba]

"And Joe I think Brian's 'disapprove' is a much more accurate description of your typical M.O."

Are you angling for inclusion on the list?

[Beau D. Jackson]

Joe:
Making a list of the people of whom you disapprove. So far I've got:

Episcopalians
"Liberals"
Ed Cone
The Pulpit Forum gang
Everyone at the N&R
Everyone, for that matter, at every newspaper in town except for the Rhino
Non-conservative city council and county commission members
City staff
Black cops
People who like porn
Roch Smith Jr.
People who voted for Barack Obama

Granted, this is just a partial list, but even as it stands, that's a pretty big tent you got going there dude.

Posted by: Brian Clarey | August 31, 2010 at 01:20 PM

HEY Brian........... I disagree with many of these presented here TOO! I have a 14X10 tent, is that big enough! Beau

[jaycee]

"People who like porn
Roch Smith, Jr.
People who voted for Barack Obama"

Double redundancy.

[David Hoggard]

What about the Presbyterians, Brian?

Joe, shouldn't they be on the list?

[Mick]

Bubba... Oh I made it. GAC supporter... remember. Ah the salad days.

BTW: I have made a life long habit of not worrying whose list I am on and for that matter am not on.

Did the cast of Jersey Shore make the list?

[Roch101]

Librarians
Libertarians
The uninsured
Professors
Matt Brown
City staff
Downtown boosters
Beavers
Raffle winners
Lex Alexander
Swimmers
Gay men
Gay women
Gay soldiers
Deaf people
Miss USA
Environmentalists

[Bubba]

"Did the cast of Jersey Shore make the list? "

Ask Seanie Drama if he knows.

[Sue]

I'm really upset that technical people who support interpreting data correctly weren't included in the ever-growing lists. Perhaps, just perhaps, the list thing will give Joe something to think about. Or pray over. Just not at First Pres.

(You could include Jews, y'know, we're pretty big on social justice. Like it's built into the religion.)

[Joe Guarino]

I am very flattered. Folks are not just reading... they are retaining! :)

Bubba, I wonder how many lapsed Episcopalians share your story. I know a number of congregations were trying to break away over the gay bishop situation.

[Wayne Stutts]

How is this in any way "social justice"? Its more like "Political Correctness" Most of you libs don't know the difference.

[Joe Guarino]

Wayne, we are apparently supposed to believe that it is "social justice" to shield governmental employees from the consequences of their actions, and to make them unaccountable.

[Ken Hill]

One word to describe Joe's blog is EFFECTIVE. Most blogs seem to be ignored. No such apathy here by either side.

[Brandon Burgess]

Mick, you screwed up. Being one of the right people affords you the benefit of having friends who will defend you even when you tell lies.

[Spag]

Social Justice is a religion to many people.

Liberals are against everyone who is not on Joe's list.

[cheripickr]

I've never seen "liberals" so comprehensively subcategorized.

[Joe Guarino]

Sam, that is a great point. I had been thinking the same thing-- that a comprehensive list could be developed of the parties held up by the left to be bugaboos or even villains.

[Dr. Mary Johnson]

Sayeth Brandon, "Mick, you screwed up. Being one of the right people affords you the benefit of having friends who will defend you even when you tell lies."

LOLLOLLOL!!! Brandon, I think you're confused. That's the underLYING theme of my blog (Housecalls) and Mike' blog (DamSCAM), not Joe's.

And (not laughing now), the deep-blue progressives in this blogosphere (that would include the blogging Jew big on "social justice") have sneered and spit at the inconvenient local truths they present.

I'm wondering Joe. Are you presenting anything at Converge South (I seem to recall a veiled invitation in the distant past)? Indeed, have ANY of the local conservatives (particularly those of us with causes relevant to social justice) had the red carpet rolled out - like it once was for "blogger" Lizzie Edwards?

I hear John has his own movie out now. Maybe someday we can catch it at the library.

[Mike J Baron]

Brian and Roch: Do you remember where you stood (sat) on my social injustice? I was fired from city hall for succeeding and winning national awards for doing exactly what I was hired to do - reduce Greensboro's water demand which the city expected would increase and make the dam a slam-dunk. Had I been black and fired with cause you would have been on it in a heartbeat because it would have been because of skin color. But I am white and I'm fired unjustly after refusing to participate in corruption which you never did investigate, my position is never filled, they close down the water conservation office, I lose everything I ever had including my children and my health and neither of you lifted a finger for me or against the scam and the cover-up.

[Dr. Mary Johnson]

Mike, you're talking to the bricks of a blue-stone wall here.

Child advocates are falling like flies in Randolph County (nothing ever changes in that black hole) and these high-minded social justice types - who hooked me FIVE YEARS ago with their bogus "citizen journalism" theme - couldn't care less. The Sues of this world (as they enjoy their progressives lives in the enlightened big burg - with their children and grandchildren and dogs) expect people like you and me to get over our injustices and move on along - not clutter up their happy little existances.

http://drjshousecalls.blogspot.com/2010/08/witches-of-randolph-county-north.html

There's a GOOD REASON that journalists, Lex Alexander and John Robinson and Edward Cone are on my list, Roch. Truth hasn't mattered. It NEVER mattered.

But why am I on yours? Except for the part about not worshiping at the Hunt/Sleazely/Clinton/Edwards/Obama altars?

[jaycee]

Read this in a novel and immediately thought of this thread about Joe:
"Only the truly brilliant truly liked him. The rest regarded him with the suspicion that lurks only in less able minds."

[Roch101]

Mike, Why are you singling out me and Brandon? There are a number of commenters here who have said less than I on your story. Seriously, why did you not wag a finger at them too? Could it be Brandon's point about "sides" being more important than facts is valid?

I was not aware of your firing at the time it happened. I only became aware of it then you started blogging about it. Eventually (and as an illustration of how off base you are with you suspicions about racial motives), I took the same approach to your situation as I did with David Wray's, which is to say a methodical pursuit of the facts. Although you did not always make it easy for me (and the public in general) to understand what happened with you, I kept asking you questions. Even though I could have flipped you off when you wrongly accused me of trying to filter your blog on We101 and Greensboro101, I kept an open mind. Eventually, I got enough information to realize that you raised some questions that really should be answered.

I am sorry that I, like every other blogger and commenter here, including the owner of this blog, did not have the time to research your story independently. I did, however, "lift a finger." I encouraged Yes! Weekly's Jordan Green to consider applying his skills to your claims. I spoke to him about it and I emailed him this on March 11th:
===============
Jordan,

Although I know you just told me yesterday that you are too overwhelmed with current stories to look at Mike Baron's claims right now, and I understand and respect that, I thought you might like to have this in your memory bank: Mike Baron forwards me a link to what purports to be excerpts from minutes from a state agency meeting on water quality for the (then) proposed Randleman Reservoir. Noteworthy is a request by a state staffer that the minutes include mention that his division predicts the water quality for the lake will violate water quality standards.

Although the N&R reports today that the lake passed a quality test, Mike expects conditions to change one water is flowing out of the lake more quickly.

All just FYI for now.

Roch
=============

When you announced your decision to shutter your blog, Mike, I wrote this: "It is a shame that the traditional media who have the resources to investigate these kinds of issues have not taken this on." (1)

So please. Your accusations are not only inappropriately selective in their targets but also, in reality, quite off base on the facts.

(1)http://roch101.blogspot.com/2010/07/dam-scam-calling-it-quits-questions.html

[Brandon Burgess]

But Roch, we aren't the right people. Conservatives don't hold their friends to the same standards as they do everyone else.

This seems to be the case with many christians in our community as well. Just look at the Pulpit Forum, Southern Baptists and Catholics.

I think Mike was addressing you and Brian anyway.

[Roch101]

Mike, here is more of my exchange with Jordan in March:
===========
Hi Jordan,

Although I get called out by him as being among those who should show
some professional interest, I am not the full time investigative
reporter you are. Have you ever considered what Mike Baron is peddling
and if there might be something there?

Yours,
Roch
==========

and

==========
Actually, there few (unfortunately) people with the ability to untangle Mike's story. I'd just like to eventually hear someone whose abilities I respect say, "I took a look at it."

Motive and harm? From what I can discern, the motive seemed to be "progress." The harm? Big public costs and a man's job, but it doesn't sound like it's China Town. My superficial take is that it is about a guy who was set up to do a job as a pretense, did it too well and got fired because of it. But, as I told Mike, I am not sure what comes from reporting that. Nothing is going to change. The damn won't be torn down, Mike won't get his job back, nobody is going to jail. But, those are assumptions based on my limited understanding -- which is why I, and it's all about me, would be happy to see you or Brian or Killian or somebody with half a brain take a little time to talk to the guy and make sure this isn't an injustice overlooked and worthy of being noticed.
=========

[Brandon Burgess]

"The rest regarded him with the suspicion that lurks only in less able minds."

--We all know that skeptics are what is wrong with this world.

Roch, it doesn't matter how many emails you post. Mike said you never cared. It must be so. Conservatives don't lie.

[Mick]

Not all conservatives, Christians, Republicans walk in lock step. I am proof of that.

[Mike J Baron]

Roch, I'm sorry I overlooked that you did write a few nice things on behalf of dam scam along with plenty of skepticism. I do appreciate that very much whenever my pain momentarily subsides and I can think straight about this subject. But can anyone explain why what I offered was never investigated yet sleasy cops with bad attitudes and no supervision are gaining your sympathy? Can anyone explain why the majority of Greensboro's bloggers never listed dam scam as a legitimate blog after 2 years of testimony and facts furnished in 100+ stories? Are you content that people prefer to not watch projects like Triad ball parks, Civil Rights Museums and regional dams being made ...but just enjoy them afterwards? Does it matter to you that corruption is everywhere and people's lives are trampled? Does it matter to you that farmer's farms were taken from them and made into a lakebed because of lies? Nope. Why should a whistleblower "do the right thing" with bloggers like you on the news beat? I gave you the full scoop on a silver platter and you denied that water demand declined WITHOUT EVEN CHECKING! To date NOBODY has ever bothered to confirm the numbers in my chart! That does not say much for bloggers becoming a suitable replacenment for a sorry news media that refuses to investigate and report. Dam scam is getting 15 hits a day just sitting there and people 1000 miles away from Greensboro its citizens as dam fools. That's not entirely true because you know that the citizens don't know that water sales are down to where they were back in 1992 almost 19 years ago!

[Joe Guarino]

Mary, I have attended ConvergeSouth a couple of times, and was always treated in a very gracious fashion when I went. I probably would not be interested in presenting at that conference; although at the very first one I attended, Mickey McLean (who used to have the Carolina Christian Conservative blog locally years ago) was one of the presenters/facilitators.

One thing that should be kept in mind is that the conference, for the most part, focuses on the intersection of new/recent technology and media. I am not a technology expert.

[Brenda Bowers]

"Only the truly brilliant truly liked him. The rest regarded him with the suspicion that lurks only in less able minds."

Posted by: jaycee | September 01, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Jaycee found a golden nugget of truth above. And I agree vehemently that it applies to Joe's blog and to Joe's persona. While watching the Glenn Beck rally Saturday I told Lew that I knew someone who was living the life of a
Christian patriot, husband and friend.
That person is Joe Guarino.

Now may I get back to the topic of the post? Revelations calls the churches in the last days the "whore of Babylon". I don't necessarily buy into the "last days" craze but I can agree that the churches are selling themselves. BB

[Stormy]

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Stand firm, Joe, in the face of the liberal storm.

[Stormy]

In another vein of wisdom, Joe:

Illegitimi non carborundum

[Joe Guarino]

Indeed, Stormy. Thanks.

Brenda, I appreciate your kind words, which are undeserved. And yes, I agree some churches are selling themselves out to a political ideology and to illegitimate causes.

[Roch101]

"But can anyone explain why what I offered was never investigated yet sleasy cops with bad attitudes and no supervision are gaining your sympathy?"

I can. They're not.

If it makes you feel better to direct your anger at me, go ahead. It's no skin off my nose.

[Roch101]

"along with plenty of skepticism." -- Mike

Really? Plenty? Any? I remember asking you the source for some of your stats and asking you who you were referring to in a post where you used "we" without saying who. But those were both devoid of any skepticism. Plenty of skepticism? I think you must be misremembering.

If you want to diminish the interest I did take and the effort I made by comparing them to some imagined actions I did not take or opinions I do not have, that's your prerogative. It would be fairer if you stuck to reality though.

[Dr. Mary Johnson]

Brenda, first, an observation. Although you and I may put some stock in Biblical prophecy, it's not going to hold any weight with many in the crowd now going after Joe.

Of course, that kind of thing was foretold too.

Roch, I just got in from a long day at the nursery and I'm just wondering . . .

Where were you (except standing behind him and egging him on) when I took on Jeff Martin over the very ugly things he said about Mike on his blog last November (stomping a man when he was down)?

Or after "The Stench" turned his sick/warped sights on me?

(I'll give you a clue. The Stench said that you and Cone were "watching". And I'll bet you both were gifted to the passwords to his posts that pro-offered "the real truth" . . . which, no doubt, was about as close to "the real truth" as Lorraine Ahearn's reporting on David Wray - or Ethan Feinsilver's on Jack Perdue).

I heard today (through some grapes on the vine) that Judge Sabiston "cannot figure out" why I'm so angry with him over the farcical show-trial that was put on (never mind his bully tactics - or that most of the evidence didn't get presented by the DA's office).

Obviously, the judge doesn't read local blogs.

Of course maybe, in this era of healthcare reform, my local story (demonstrating why healthcare needs real reform - something we didn't get from Obama) had ever been in the newspaper - I'd never have been fodder for a cyber-stalker in the first place. At the very least, maybe this idiot judge would have a clue as to why this Pediatrician is the LAST person that anyone at that Courthouse should be calling "crazy" or "stupid". Of course, lately, more and more people in Randolph County are getting wise to the lawyers' collective "What? . . . Who? . . . Us?" act.

No thanks, of course to noble do-gooding, fact-chasing bloggers like you and Robinson and Cone.

And here's a fact: You didn't really take an interest in Mike's story until just before he shut his blog down (and how long was he here?). You sent a few e-mails to a couple reporters. Big whup. Meanwhile, your buddy Cone was yawning every chance he got.

You/Cone/Sue seem to have ZERO concept of the influence you bear (or at least the influence you bore in the past) in this blogsphere - and how a cutting or flippant or WHOLLY INACCURATE/FALSE remark could do SERIOUS DAMAGE to those of us who have suffered real injustice at the hands of government and/or the legal system. You've goaded and poked, you've banned, you've de-linked, you've ignored (in Mike's case, until throwing him some bones at the very last minute), and now you're doing the same act the guilty-as-hell lawyers at the Randolph County Courthouse . . . What? . . . Who? . . . Us?

Puhlease. "Misremembering" is a good word for it.

I'm also gonna note here that you have studiously avoided engaging me. And that's because your record in these blogs (especially as it pertains to a "methodical pursuit of the facts") has NEVER been based in reality.

It's been pure malicious, self-serving fiction.