Local Presbyterian USA Churches Continue to Leave a Political Mark

About a month ago I ran a series here on one of the most liberal Christian denominations, the Presbyterian Church USA.  We discussed the fact that the denomination is pro-abortion, and that it has previously moved to allow gay clergy. 

We spoke of its "social justice" perspective.  Senator Kay Hagan attends First Presbyterian locally, and her vote in favor of more socialized medicine is potentially a manifestation of the church's social justice persective.  Noted thinkers on the national level, Marvin Olasky and Father Sirico of the Catholic Church, have debunked the biblical legitimacy of the "social justice" perspective as it relates to public policy.

We pointed out local blogger/former News and Record editor Lex Alexander's membership at First Presbyterian, which he has freely reported in the blogosphere. 

We spoke of the fact that First Presbyterian recently hosted a conference sponsored by the Human Rights Campaign, which advocates for the gay sociopolitical agenda.  And we also noted that Presbyterian Church of the Covenant, also in Greensboro, recently hosted the annual convention of the Guilford County Democratic Party.

One of the amazing things is that First Presbyterian Church is an "establishment church".  It is where many of Greensboro's movers and shakers have attended.  It is thought to be the home church of some of Greensboro's "old money".  And yet it seems to be flaming liberal.  But remember that this is Greensboro.

Now there are some other observations I wish to share:

1. We learn that the Rev. Zeb Holler is a former pastor at Presbyterian Church of the Covenant.  Rev. Zoller recently wrote a book, and it turns out that he had the Rev. Nelson Johnson write the forward.  Apparently Rev. Zoller and Rev. Johnson go back a long way.  Many of us at least vaguely remember Rev. Holler's name as one of those individuals who led and promoted the Truth and Reconciliation process.  Johnson, of course, is a member of Greensboro's notorious Pulpit Forum; and was one of the individuals who caused the fateful events of 1979. 

It is possible that religious leaders and congregations can sometimes facilitate the practice of identity politics.  It appears that may be part of the Presbyterian Church USA tradition here in Greensboro. 

2. News and Record columnist Jim Schlosser had one of his trademark human interest stories recently in the paper.  It concerned a downtown Greensboro baker, Bill Snider, who once knew Barack Obama when they were college students together in California.

There was a jaw-dropping statement in the piece:

Snider says the Obama he sees on television seems like the same deliberate — and politically moderate — guy who at Occidental always thought through decisions about his studies and his life.

Barack Obama a moderate?  It could only be someone with a very liberal perspective who would make or transmit that assertion.

But I remembered having read elsewhere that Schlosser also is a member at First Presbyterian.  (Correct me if I am wrong.)  They doubtless have thought very highly of Obama at that church.

3. Lex Alexander continues to tell us what he thinks. 

First, he seems to think that the pro-life movement lies to its base in order to motivate them.  Part of the reason is that many who are pro-life also happen to be against socialized medicine.  Lex refers to such people as "cynical liars or batsh*t insane".

Lex does not address the powerful intellectual basis for the pro-life movement found at places like this and this and this.

Second, Lex seems to feel the Presbyterian Church USA would be adhering to Christ's second great commandment if it allows a defiantly open lesbian woman to serve as clergy.

4. The church also is interested in dealing with climate change.  (HT: Stormy)

America's mainline Protestant churches, like the Presbyterian Church USA, have been uniquely influential in recent American history.  Its people have oft been monied, and have risen to high positions of leadership in the media, the academy, in industry and government.  And these churches have been effective at furthering their political agenda.

But there are two ironies.  The first is that "establishment churches" can be such potent forces for liberalism.  The second is that the loathed religious right is regarded as a threat-- when it is the religious left that has been much more effective at breaching the esteemed wall separating church and state.

   

Comments

[bubba]

"Lex refers to such people as 'cynical liars or batsh*t insane'."

Yet he has the temerity to precede that pronouncement with "I realize that I’m relying on facts and logic here......" after quoting another blogger who passes off the discredited "high infant mortality rate in the USA" canard, a purposefully made
lie used by "progressives" in support of health care "reform".

Relying on facts and logic are are not practices Lex Alexander is known for. There are several participants on this blog who will testify to that based on first hand experience.

One other thing: Alexander does not handle being held accountable very well. Let's see what his response will be.

[Stephen]

So Schlosser writes that Snider says Obama is/was a moderate. Since Schlosser wrote that and goes the the First Pres. Church, then the First Pres. Church must think very highly of President Obama...

That's one way of adding two plus two....

[Joe Guarino]

Stephen, actually did not write what you said. I do not doubt there are some dissenters at First Pres and in the overall Presbyterian Church USA denomination. But here is a president that wants to deliver on "climate change", "social justice", socialized medicine, the gay political agenda, and protecting legal abortion on demand. It seems Obama has many commonalities with Hagan, Lex, and the overall denomination. And, I expect, with much of the leadership at First Pres.

[Ken Hill]

Alasdair MacIntyre once observed, "Theists are offering atheists less and less in which to disbelieve".

[One Who Remembers]

Lex Alexander jumped the shark years ago with his venomous,unprovoked "news article" about Rock 92. The N&R printed that petulant anti-radio screed as though it were straight news. It was a hack job of the highest order and it has colored my opinion of everything that schmuck has scribbled since.

I can't imagine anyone less relevant, either in print or in the blogosphere, than Lex Alexander.

[Stephen]

Dr. Guarino,

One of your points above, in your attack on the First Presbyterian Church, is regarding one of its members, Jim Schlosser.

You wrote that Jim Schlosser wrote an interview with Bill Snider discussing Mr. Snider's experience at Occidental college with President Obama.

In this interview, Bill Snider is quoted as saying, in your words, a jawdropping statement.

Then you state that Jim Schlosser, the interviewer, is a member of the First Presbyterian Church.

After that shocking revelation, you state that since Jim Schlosser wrote that Bill Snider said Obama was a moderate, there is little doubt that the First Pres. Church thinks very highly of Obama.

This is faulty logic.

[Joe Guarino]

Stephen, I didn't use the word "since", as you did. I made the statement about them most likely having thought highly of Obama on the basis of the whole picture.

[Stormy]

"It is thought to be the home church of some of Greensboro's "old money". And yet it seems to be flaming liberal. But remember that this is Greensboro."

Let us get it straight that many wealthy people or "old money", as well as Wall Street, are politically progressive. Progressives make good straw dogs out of images of the greedy wealthy being Republicans. The truth these days is that Democrats are generally the poor and elite rich, and Republicans are generally the middle class. John Edwards was right about the existence of Two Americas, but he didn't have it right about who resided in the Two Americas. The two Americas are 1) progressives, including poor and elite, and 2) conservatives or moderate conservatives, primarily middle class America.

[Joe Guarino]

Great point, Stormy. Thanks. Of course, there are many exceptions, but there is much truth in what you say.

[Brenda Bowers]

I always come back to the proven, documented fact that Progressives give less to charity than
Conservatives and Progressive volunteer their time far less than Conservatives. VP Biden and his $123.00 this year----how can the man stand to show his face in public?

As for the Presbyterian Church, it has traditionally been the bastion of the more well off Whites. And it had traditionally been more conservative until the last 60 or so years. I think perhaps a bit of White Guilt is operating here. It certainly is in Greensboro!

Remember the Whore of Babylon is the Church! We have been warned to follow the Light Within if we are to do right. Many churches now are being pressed to "go green" under the guise of saving the planet. Schools are "going green" and indoctrinating our children. Glenn Beck reports this week have been probably the most disturbing of all the information he has given in the past. If you missed him this week go to Fox News and get his stories for this week. They have much to do with this "going green", climate change and of course Cap & Trade. BB

[Joe Guarino]

Yes, Brenda, even some of the evangelical churches have been jumping on the climate change bandwagon. Thanks.

[Jordan Green]

Joe, I've heard that Presbyterian Church of the Covenant is aging and numerically declining. Knowing people associated with both Church of the Covenant and First Pres I would hazard a generalization that they represent different social strata. (For the record, my affiliation is Episcopalian.)

I submitted an essay for Z's book. I would be honored if he decided to include it. Unfortunately, I could not make it to the book release party because I was working on an assignment.

You should meet Z. You might find that you share some commonalities in seeing a moral dimension in politics and also having a willingness to extend your religious life into the civic realm.

Hopefully, I've provided you with some more grist to draw additional connections.

[Joe Guarino]

Jordan, I see the points you are trying to make.

I am fairly familiar with earnest but misguided members of the religious left like Zeb Holler, because I used to attend more liberal churches years ago. I can only say that there are folks like Holler out there; and there are folks whose beliefs are more congruent with what orthodox churches teach. And it is almost as if these two groups live on separate planets. They tend to travel in different circles, and their belief systems are fundamentally different.

Yes, there will be some commonalities, and there are things to learn from both groups. But the religious left has made some terrible sociocultural and economic mistakes, as well as biblical mistakes, in my opinion. And their mistakes have generally been more costly to society because they have been more influential.

[Doc Alexander]

I have to chuckle when I hear liberals calling themselves "progressives." The very label is a bit of a conceit, no? If you fancy yourself a "progressive," then what are the people who are politically opposite of you? "Regressives" I would suspect.

There is no shame in calling oneself a "liberal." I was one once myself. But like the man who was turned into a newt in "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail, I got better.

[triadwatch]

did you see this?

http://yesweeklyblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/democrats-train-to-get-out-vote.html

[triadwatch]

then we have this from the post above
http://www.greensborocollege.edu/about/communications/news/news-detail.cfm?customel_datapageid_8379=38297

with the title of speech from House Rep. Brad Miller "Making a killing, or making a living." but a new title needs to be Gerrymandering Guilford Residents or Screw You Guilford Residents I Love Wake County.

[Joe Guarino]

Doc, the "bit of a conceit" to which you refer probably extends to the "progressive" churches, whose true believers likely regard themselves on a higher intellectual and social plane than the plebes on the religious right.

Keith, yes, I did see that. The question is when that type of activity becomes a violation under IRS rules. Tax-exempt organizations are forbidden from involving themselves in partisan political activities, and it appears that church may be stepping over the line. (Of course, under Obama's IRS, the question is open as to whether it would be pursued, even if a complaint were filed).

Brad Miller is academia's kind of congressman-- the prototypical stealth socialist. It is interesting to see how some bloggers and the folks at the News and Record criticize those on the right and certain candidates who, in their view, are too ideological. Moderation among Republicans is a valued attribute. However, there is no effort to call out extremists like Miller and Mel Watt.

[bubba]

Notice who is the "spokesperson" for for Greensboro College.

They could not have picked a less credible person to speak for them.

In Brad Miller's case, they could not have picked a less credible public figure to speak to them at Commencement.

[bubba]

On second thought, I retract my statement about Miller. Greensboro College could have chosen John Edwards for the Commencement speaker.

[Lex]

Bubba, speaking with my work hat on, recent commencement speakers at Greensboro College have included:

2007: U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Dole, R-N.C.
2008: N.C. Chief Justice Sarah Parker (Democrat; N.C., for those of you who aren't from around here, elects its Supreme Court justices).
2009: Aldona Wos, former ambassador to Estonia and prominent GOP fund-raiser.

So there's been a mix.

Commencement speakers are picked by a committee chaired this year (I wasn't here and so can't speak for past years) by the Vice President for Academic Affairs/Dean of the Faculty.

[Removes work hat, puts on personal hat.]

The Rock 92 column was clearly labeled opinion, Brad. As for the other aspersions Bubba casts on my work at the N&R, well, it's all online back to 1/1/90, available to anyone with a Lexis/Nexis account or a Greensboro Public Library card. Anyone who wants is welcome to go back, look it over and judge for him/herself. My N&R blogs are still online, and my 8-year-old personal blog also is up there, critical comments and all. You're welcome to form your own opinions.

[bubba]

"You're welcome to form your own opinions."

Most of us have done so based on our personal interation with you through the local blahgosphere interaction.

To be generous, let's just say you have no credibilty personally or professionally.

[jaycee]

Yeah, Lex, all your previous posts are there for everyone to see...except the ones you delete because they disagree with you or challenge you to prove some lie you've chosen to print. Can't count the number of lies I've caught you in and you deleted my posts to preserve your "credibility."
Why should we accept or even consider your obviously slanted opinions on this subject when you proven time and again that you deserve no respect as a journalist or an unbiased thinker?