Greensboro City Council, District 3: George Hartzman, by a hair

The District 3 primary pits incumbent Zack Matheny against two challengers, George Hartzman and Jay Ovittore.  All three candidates responded to my questionnaire.  This race is quite interesting, and poses difficult dilemmas.

George Hartzman recognized the central function of municipal government is "keeping the peace".  He opposes incentives for private real estate development.  He advocates fixing the GPD (although he does not specify what that would entail).  He favors expanding usage of the White Street Landfill.  He says he is forsaking support from the Simkins machine and TREBIC-affiliated organizations; and is the only candidate in this race to do so.  He emphasizes sound economics, including avoidance of debt and reductions in spending.   (He does not, however, commit to forsake tax or fee increases.)  He probably exhibits the most curiosity among all the candidates with respect to holding down employee benefit costs.  He expresses misgivings about granting special standing to Action Greensboro and the Greensboro Partnership in the formulation of policy.

I disagreed with Mr. Hartzman on a number of issues, but overall, his responses on paper are fairly good.

Ovitorre also opposes giving incentives for private real estate development.  He opposes raising fees for city residents.  He wants a full time city council, with the city attorney and police chief answering to the city council.  He opposes consolidation of the city and county planning departments. 

Matheny says he wants to find a way to increase use of the White Street Landfill "the best possible way".  He says he wants to avoid tax and fee increases, and feels this would help recruit new jobs to the area; but he does not categorically rule out the possibility of voting in favor of increases.  He points out, however, he has worked to avoid such increases the last two years.  He favors bringing the city attorney under the control of the City Council.  He says he opposes giving Action Greensboro and the Greensboro Partnership increased standing in the formulation of policy.  He has a seemingly defensible algorithm for deciding what projects are appropriate to fund with economic development bonds.  But I am not sure how that has played out with his votes over the last two years.

One cannot ignore the practical dimensions of this race.  Mr. Hartzman has had a significant online presence, with contemplative posts often focusing on economics.  It is difficult to know, however, to what extent he has been able to raise money and drum up support in the community.  It is tough to win local elections without doing well all the mundane, real world, nuts-and-bolts aspects of campaigning.

I know Jay Ovittore and like him personally.  We disagree on a number of issues, however.

Mr. Matheny ran to the political center two years ago, and won the support of the Simkins machine and the Melderec bunch.  The Simkins influence in district 3, while palpable, is not overwhelming.  Matheny over the last six months has been moving a bit more to the right; and surprisingly almost seems to have declared some independence from the Simkins crowd.

I like Zack Matheny now more than I did two years ago.  Some of us will disagree with at least some of what he has done as a council member.  He has certainly demonstrated an ability to campaign and win elections; and will be difficult to beat this year.

If I lived in District 3, I would probably vote for George Hartzman.  But I also acknowledge Zack Matheny's advantage politically; and the evolution of his political profile in a seemingly more positive direction.

Comments

[Roch101]

Two questions, Joe:

1. Will you point to where on Hartzman's blog you find "contemplative posts often focusing on economics."

2. Is there any official action Matheny took in his rookie tenure to which you specifically object?

[Joe Guarino]

Roch:

1. When I use the term contemplative, I use it in the sense of generating questions-- and that is the theme of Hartzman's blog. I do not mean long discussions. The posts usually are about some aspect of economic policy dealing with the public sector; and they are often brief. Remain mindful that I do not think his blog alone will be enough to win for him a primary or a general election.

2. I didn't like the amount of time it took for Matheny to vote to remove Mitchell Johnson. I didn't like the city's support thrown to downtown private real estate projects. Those are a couple of examples.

[Roch101]

1. No examples?

2. Now I am really confused. You like that Hartzman is contemplative on his blog, but on perhaps the most weighty decision of his tenure, you did not like it that Matheny was contemplative in an official action with real-world consequences -- even though he got it right.

What city support of downtown real estate projects are you referring to?

[Joe Guarino]

Roch, I didn't say I liked the contemplative nature of the posts. It was merely an observation. All you have to do is go to the blog and you will see what I mean; but I feel certain you have likely already seen it. Hartzman employs a contemplative style to communicate in somewhat of a subtle manner what he is thinking on an issue. That is different than what Matheny was doing.

I am thinking about an office building that was to be placed toward the southern end of Elm, I believe, with retail on the first floor. My recollection is that there was some controversy with parking. Matheny was a big supporter, if my memory serves me correctly. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Tony Wilkins]

Got to disagree with you on this one Joe (don't believe I've ever said that here before).
Zack Matheny has matured tremendously in his rookie season and I believe he's the best candidate to serve in D3.
I serve with Zack on the WMC and I deem him to have Greensboro's interest at heart.
Not that I haven't disagreed with some of his decisions (see your #2 above about the amount of time it took Matheny to vote to remove MJ) but he's always taken the time to explain any question I might have had about how he voted.
I'd be concerned that Hartzman would fill council meetings with questions instead of answers as is his annoying campaign style.
In this race I'm going to "Back Zack".

[Joe Guarino]

Roch:

http://www.yesweekly.com/article-5605-developer-and-small-business-owners-clash-on-south-elm-st.html

Tony--

Your post is a reflection of why this is a tough race to decide upon. How do we know that Matheny's transformation is genuine? I do not doubt he feels he has the city's best interests in mind; but I was just paging through my previous posts discussing Matheny. I really don't want to raise them all right now (some of it was not pretty).

I certainly respect your opinion, Tony; and I feel ambivalent about this race, at best.

[triadwatch]

Roch, it was probably this case below and while you are at it when you get your check from zack from advertising on we 101 ask him when he is going to let us know about all of those anonymous investors he partnered with on the land speculation game zack and robbie did off of highway 68. It would also be nice if Zack Matheny would come clean on his relationship with Derek Allen the local zoning lawyer who has had plenty of zoning cases come in front of council in the past few years, is Derek Allen a part of his reelection campaign and if so how close?

THis case below was brought in front of council after the Protest PEtition on January 21, 2009 and it wasn't a pretty sight with this case coming in front of council well after midnight.

While talking about Protest Petition and the current council , yes they all voted for the legislative agenda in support of Protest Petition but every current council member knew damn well that if they voted NO on this then each challenger would have made that their talking point to get rid of the incumbent come fall.

Below is the project i think Joe was talking about but i could be wrong.

Assistant City Manager for Economic Development, Jim Westmoreland, presented a PowerPoint
Presentation on the LindBrook project, spoke to the new construction proposal along South Elm Street of
approximately 2200 square foot, five-story, mixed-use building consisting of office, restaurant, and corporate
residential space; capital investment of the project would be $3.6 million which included job creation. The project
had been reviewed by the economic development staff; desire to create outdoor dining, discussion of dumpster
access/servicing; and off-street parking requirements. The Item was presented to Council in closed session in
December 2008; and the building façade had been revamped to reflect the architectural style along South Elm Street.
Financial discussion included incentives, leasing agreement and tax base revenue expansion

[Joe Guarino]

Yes, Keith, that is the one. I had simultaneously posted a link to a YesWeekly article about it, and it is found above.

[Roch101]

Thanks, Joe. I remember that matter now. And I agree that Matheny was on the wrong side of that issue. I also did not like his vote against the resolution on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission -- but you and I disagreed about that one too, Joe -- another vote you'd have to say Matheny got right from your perspective.

If I come to the conclusion that Hartzman or Ovittore are more likely to be in sync with my interests and values than the 80% or so that Mathney has been, they'll get my vote. Hartzman won't answer a direct question and makes me ask five or six times before giving up, that kind of contempt and obfuscation are things I would relish in an elected representative, so I am definitely giving him serious consideration.

Kieth, I like you, man, but sometimes you are like a little old lady peering through her curtains and mumbling to her cats about whose car is in the neighbor's driveway. If you have something to say to me, have some stones and say it.

[triadwatch]

I did

[Joe Guarino]

Roch, the TRC vote-- and his comments in connection with that-- are part of the recent transformation of which I am speaking.

I am trying to analyze the candidates based on issues and alliances; but in the case of incumbents, there is also a prior record to consider. This is a tricky business, because all of the various candidates have their pluses and minuses.

[bubba]

Good post, Keith.

I don't care how much Matheny has "maturered". I don't trust him, and the concerns about his conflicts of interest are too great to even consider him as a suitable member for Council again.

Hartzman's "annoying questions" address issues that none of the other candidates want to talk about. They deserve to be asked, which Hartzman has done, and I think they will be answered if my fellow D3 citizens are smart enough to elect him.

Ovittore's political and social views are pretty well known. If he somehow managed to get himself elected, it would be just another vote the race baiters and the big spenders could consistently count upon.

Count me in as part of the "Sack Zack" gang.

[triadwatch]

Just got word that Junior King Zoning Stud Lawyer Derek Allen is no longer in the neighborhood of the triad. Not confirmed but might be in asheville.

It was interesting to see while Derek Allen was at brooks pierce he got in to the development game with a few investors on property out near south east school here is the link to that story
http://birmingham.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2008/05/12/story9.html

and look who is likely helping with the construction. None other than Mega Builders .

The same Mega builders who gave generously to zack back in 2007 and in 2009 Mike Winstead gave Zack $1,500 which is well above normal for local contributions.

[Roch101]

"Will you seek or accept the endorsement of the Simkins PAC? 'No.'"

So tonight's interview was just for kicks?

[Roch101]

Let's see, Hartzman lied to Joe and Matheny took a campaign contribution from an associate of an associate.

[Joe Guarino]

Roch, if Hartzman went for the Simkins interview, it would be good to hear his explanation, for better or worse.

[bubba]

"Let's see, Hartzman lied to Joe......"

I must have missed that. Can you point that out to the rest of us?

[The Committee for Greater Confusion]

If a candidate falls in PAC interview but a blogger doesn't hear him, has he sought their endorsement?

[triadwatch]

since know one knows the connection with zack and his development investors here is what jordan green wrote about the land speculation game zack and robbie did off of highway 68.

"Jordan Green in the article writes this,"At-large Councilman Robbie Perkins and District 3 Councilman Zack Matheny have abstained from a city council vote on the project because of conflicts of interest.Derek Allen, the lawyer with Brooks Pierce law firm who argued the case before the planning board, said that the two councilmen “had interest in groups that had interest in that property.” The limited liability company interested in developing the property, which is currently owned by WA Kennedy Jr., was organized in June by Jennifer C. Noble, a lawyer with Brooks Pierce. The company’s registered agent is Stanhope Johnson, a partner with NAI Piedmont Triad, a commercial real estate company headed by Perkins. "

So roch if you think it is a simple game of associate to associate and campaign giving and brooks pierce law firm along with derek allen. While you are at it check and see what Derek Allen did for brooks pierce a few years back (hint, Cam Cover).

While you are at it look at how much the city bills brooks pierce law firm. Conflicts of interest come to mind on plenty of issues especially when derek allen was with brooks pierce.

After you see how this land game was played fast forward another year when the land in question got a gift of water and sewer added to the property at a cost of around 4 million tax dollars with it going right through this property in general to hook up with the new gtcc buildings. Nice gift to 2 greensboro city council members.

sometimes we need to remind ourselves what has happened in past and here is that post as well,
http://triadwatch.blogspot.com/2008/09/highway-68-north-anonymous-investors.html

[Joe Guarino]

Keith, you are right that this matter does raise concerns. Hartzman has spoken about the issue of ethics with respect to local public officials.

Roch, I truly regret this extreme peculiarity of our local politics. Sometimes folks are whispering in candidates' ears that it would be unthinkable to refrain from going to the machine interview. Sometimes they ultimately just feel compelled to go. It is a peculiarity because they feel they must go and bow before a corrupt urban liberal Democratic political machine, even though they may not be corrupt urban liberal Democrats.

I have expressed the opinion many times before that candidates should not participate. But it is one of the ugly realities of our local politics that they sometimes feel they must.

[George Hartzman]

Last night, I attended an interview at 7:15 with the Simkins PAC. Attendance included Skip Alston, Earl Jones, Alma Adams, Goldie Wells and Steve Bowden.

When contacted for the interview, I immediately disclosed I was not seeking endorsements nor taking donations from PACs, Lobbyists or Special Interest Groups, which I have written and spoken of often. They wanted to do the interview anyway, so I agreed.

It was an amazing experience.

I didn't know who or how many people would be in the room beforehand, and I had no idea that I was going to be meeting those in attendance. After making introductions, I was asked why I decided do to run, which was initially over fiscal budgetary problems we face going forward.

This immediately led to an extensive discussion of whether or not to reopen the White Street Landfill, about which we vehemently disagreed. I said we may be faced with a choice of temporarily reopening the landfill or having to cut hundreds of city jobs if revenues continue to decline. A repeated response involved asking if I would like to have the landfill in my neighborhood. I retorted that many if not most of those living near the landfill moved there after it opened in 1940, and that I probably would not have bought my home if I it were aware of being near an existing landfill. I also tried to make the point that if we are faced with a budgetary choice, and we decide to keep the landfill closed, the lost jobs would most likely be city services helping members of the community not unlike those living around the landfill.

There was some discussion amongst the interviewers of which ethnicities have always ended up with the short end of the stick when times get tough, and to a point I agreed, but I said I felt the issue of the landfill isn’t one of race, but of a fiscal and budgetary choice we may very well have to face in the near future, in which there will be only the best of unfortunate choices involved. At one point, I asked what they thought was a way to fix the budget pressures I saw coming relative to White Street, but the question was lost in the following conversation.

I remember talking about how the state confiscated $800 million from Greensboro’s beer and wine tax to balance the state budget, and the raids on rainy day funds plus the stimulus money the state used this year which will not be there next year.

I was then informed that time had run out, and the interview ended cordially.

All in all, I will remember my interview with the Simkin’s PAC as one of the highlights of my time in Greensboro politics.

George Hartzman

[Joe Guarino]

Thanks, George, for your account of the meeting.

It is extremely unfortunate that so many local elected officials and candidates feel the need to bow obsequiously before this group to get and keep the machine endorsement. I am glad that you did not do so-- assuming your account above is an accurate representation of the discussion that took place.

[Dan]

His account should receive widespread coverage to shake this city out of its slobbering, apathetic slumber. Not to effect mass change, necessarily, but to simply observe where and how certain philosophies originate.

Of course it won't.

[Joe Guarino]

Good point, Dan. It should receive widespread coverage. And in fact, any posted reactions of any candidates to their special interest group interviews should be covered.

[bubba]

Ah, but George, according to "experets' like Roch, you "lied to Joe".

It's the typical knee jerk response of those who enable the Simkins/Trebic cartel to maintain their stranglehold on our local government.

It's how people like Perkins, Groat, Bellamy-Small, Matheny, Wells, and Johnson continue to get elected.

[triadwatch]

Doing a little research and found this nugget about Project Homestead and the Simkins PAC.

In this yes weekly article from march 6, 2006 here is the link and a few quotes from robbbie perkins that are amazing to hear but this type of politics is not new but needs to be reminded about what is going on around here.

http://www.yesweekly.com/article-2236-finally_-answers-about-project-homesteads-collapse.html

"“Michael King was a very charismatic sort of person,” Perkins said. “He had a role in the African-American community as a preacher, as a leader. He put himself in the middle of things.”

King learned his political skills from veteran politicians like former mayor Jim Melvin and businessman Joe Koury, Perkins said. Chief among those lessons was acquiring the ability to circumvent city beauracracy in order to get your ideas to the table, he added.

“Anybody who wants to get something done better has to be able to go around the system,” Perkins said. “That is the system. The city council is elected by the people and the people should be allowed to speak to it.”

Unfortunately, King was able to work the system so well that he managed to dodge safeguards like the city audit department. Despite his organization's sloppy bookkeeping, he produced letters attesting to Project Homestead's clean fiscal bill of health, Perkins said.

As it turns out, city funds had been mingled with other streams of income that had been spent on travel to other parts of the state and cruises that were listed as business expenses.

“Michael was a preacher, not a financial expert,” Perkins said. “Things got out of control and he tried to borrow from Peter to pay Paul.”"

AMAZING

[triadwatch]

also on august 19, 2009 a prominent Simkins PAC member resigns in article in yes weekly
here

http://www.yesweekly.com/article-7129-pac-member-resigns-after-questioning-role-of-elected-officials.html

here is a quote in article
"“I have been very expressive as a member of the PAC that I did not believe elected officials should be on the PAC, that it was not in the best interest of the community,” Brown told YES! Weekly. “It was conflictive.” "

So look and see who was in the room with George Hartzman for the interview these elected officials,
Skip Alston, Earl Jones, Alma Adams, Goldie Wells.

[bubba]

I'm glad you provided the Yes link, Keith.

As an infrequent reader of that publication, I missed the following when it was first published:

"Bowden said he believes the Simkins PAC’s influence is as strong as ever, but also noted that its priorities are closely aligned with the city’s political mainstream."

That's a pretty clear admission of the nature of the Simkins/TREBIC Cabal that needs to be politically neutralized so that we can move forward in this town.

[Joe Guarino]

Yes, Keith, the Simkins PAC now appears to be a group primarily of people like elected officials, and perhaps also a couple of lawyers-- including at least one prominent defense attorney.

I disagree with Cardes Brown on many things; but I agree with him that it is not appropriate to have a PAC that ostensibly is supposed to be representing local African Americans, when in fact it is a machine composed primarily of politicians representing THEIR interests.

Bubba, the odious nature of the alliance between the Simkins crowd and the Melderec crowd is one of the major problems holding Greensboro back. If George Hartzman is genuinely forsaking the temptation to get caught up with those groups, that is a very honorable thing, and it stands in his favor.

[Roger Greene]

"King learned his political skills from veteran politicians like former mayor Jim Melvin and businessman Joe Koury, Perkins said." Joe Koury wasn't a big fan of Jim Melvin. He didn't play ball with that crowd. They didn't like him opening his own convention center when they wanted one downtown among other things.

[bubba]

"Joe Koury wasn't a big fan of Jim Melvin. He didn't play ball with that crowd. They didn't like him opening his own convention center when they wanted one downtown among other things."

Oh my!

You mean Perkins LIED?

Imagine that!

[Roger Greene]

I highly doubt Michael King studied under either Melvin or Mr. Koury.

[bubba]

Roger, how dare you impugn Mayor Perkins' judgment!

[Roch101]

In addition to breaking his promise about not accepting the PAC endorsement, Hartzman has reneged on his promise not to accept contributions of more than $100.

Personally, I think the candidate was wrong to make these pledges to begin with, but had he stuck to them, they would at least have been respected as principled. What I find objectionable is when these promises turn out to have been mere attempts to manipulate voter sentiment.

[Joe Guarino]

Roch, are you saying that Hartzman got the PAC endorsement? Do you know who else did?

[Roch101]

Good catch, Joe and a mistake on my part. What I meant to say was "in addition to breaking his promise about not seeking the PAC endorsement..."

I do not know who, if anybody, the PAC has endorsed yet, nor do I know how a candidate would effectively refuse to accept such an endorsement.

[Joe Guarino]

I would think the most effective way to refuse it, Roch, is to refrain from showing up for the interview. It concerns me when candidates say they don't want the endorsement, but show up for the interview anyway. But there are a number of people locally telling candidates it would be a huge mistake to refrain from going.

I wonder how all the cities around the country function that do not have such a PAC. And I wonder how the candidates in those cities subsist without it.