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August 02, 2009

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The president is not the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the country," which should also not be capitalized.

Roch, are those the only things in this letter with which you disagree?

Gee Roch, as always we thank you for the deep, personal and thoughtfully constructed perspectives you bring to these issues . Were you a debater in school or something?

"The president is not the 'Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the country,' "


Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution says you're wrong.

"....he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed...."

Basic political science knowledge, among other things, is obviously not Roch's forte.

Why are we not surprised?

POTUS may not be the chief law enforcement officer of the country, but I think he is his boss. POTUS has a lot of influence over who gets prosecuted. Take the recent dismissal of charges for the Black Panther Voter intimidation case in Philadelphia.

The president is not the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the country," which should also not be capitalized.

Well Roch, are you suggesting that law enforcement should be only based on technacality, you have a mind like a steel trap! Beau

It's called "cerebralsclerosis". Fortunately it's not contagious by casual blogtact.

I guess, technically, the US Attorney General, Eric Holder, would be considered the chief law enforcement officer of the federal government.


Roch is right, Obama is only the chief of the chief law enforcement officer of the country.....

But more importantly to the broader debate, should it be capitalized?

As I read these responses to Roch, it tells me that he accomplished his regular goal of distracting the discussion away from the important toward the irrelevant. He throws out an irrelevant technicality to distract the discussion away from the real issue. I'm not biting on Alinsky Rule 3.

Alinsky Rules for Radicals:

RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

"Crime does not pay and neither does law enforcement."

Maybe not crime, but law enforcement does pretty well. More than a 100 Greensboro police officers (out of about 700) make more than $60,000 per year (and that's not counting any overtime, etc.). That ain't bad.

"As I read these responses to Roch, it tells me that he accomplished his regular goal of distracting the discussion away from the important toward the irrelevant."

Standard Operating Procedure.

Meanwhile, back on topic, here's a revealing perspective of the situation.

http://bubbanear.blogspot.com/2009/08/picture-is-worth-thousand-words-for.html

Preston,

Those are interesting numbers on salary for Greensboro police officers. Apparently law enforcement pays considerably better than teaching.

Another error in the piece is that Obama did call Crowley and say he regretted his choice of words. He also praised Crowley as “an outstanding police officer and a good man.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/07/26/2009-07-26_hello_sgt_crowley_its_the_president.html#ixzz0N9eWNxcY

Comedian Dave Chapelle had a funny monologue on the police that's especially interesting in retrospect:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/chappelle-on-gates.html

As for Glenn Beck & Bubba's charges, Andrew Sullivan and Jon Stewart pretty well capture the humor in such looniness and inanity:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/08/as-the-right-gets-loonier.html

"As for Glenn Beck & Bubba's charges, Andrew Sullivan and Jon Stewart pretty well capture the humor in such looniness and inanity:"

In other words, you have absolutely nothing of a factual nature with which to counter what's been discussed about the picture. It's the Cronkite/Viet Nam threads all over again.

Why are we not surprised? You don't know when to quit, do you, Ace? You must be some kind of masochist.

You're talking about Andrew Sullivan, the Palin truther wanker, as if he had any credibility. Good luck, with that, pal.

And Stewart, a comedian, as a credible source? WAY too funny! He's just another pompous jerk like Sullivan.

These are the type of people with whom you obviously have a strong identity bond.

It shows in the highly suspect quality of what you write.


Roch, grammar and punctuation aside, do you agree with the President's "stupidity" statement?

The pres called crowley? Hmmm...why didn't he get on tv and say " I spoke stupidly"?

Because that is what he did. He is not man enough to apologize publicly, hell he isn't man enough to speak for himself and when he tries to, he sounds as if he didn't even understand the question. I use to love watching Letterman's "Great Bush Moments" but I stopped watching since he cracked jokes about the MLB and 14 year old girls. I bet he has a ton of fun with Obama soundbytes.

Oh yeah, back to the topic. So being a cop aint bad huh? You say management gets paid more than base salary so it aint all bad. Think of the crap they deal with daily, Jorge Cornell is the least of their worries when you got 15 year olds going around robbing people at gunpoint. Most cops do not make that much, and considering the nature of their work, that is bad.

"Apparently law enforcement pays considerably better than teaching."


--hmmmm...lets compare a police captains salary with a school administrators.

--Chapelle's monologue may be funny, but it certainly isn't interesting or insightful. Using his stereotypical "white man voice" and what not.


"As for Glenn Beck & Bubba's charges, Andrew Sullivan and Jon Stewart pretty well capture the humor in such looniness and inanity:"

--No, Stewart pretty well captures 3 second soundbytes and mocks others viewpoint without serious analysis, that is why he is on comedy central. If you can't beat em, make em seem uncool and crazy.

OK, I'll do the research:
LE: In GPD: 1 Chief, 4 Asst. Chiefs, 13 Capts, 10 LTs all over $70K
Ed: In GCS: 25 Principals over $100K, 66 non-principals over $100K, 44 more principals over $80K, 115 other principals and asst. principals over $60K.

Decision to the educators in a knockout.

It's unfair to provide facts or use common sense to successfully discredit Little Lord Buie and his talking points, folks.

After all,the use of facts and common sense is not mandatory nor even necessary to support The Agenda in the "progressive" worldview.

Such a thing would require actual academic and intellectual integrity instead of simply spewing obnoxious condescension and arrogance.

How about teachers? There are a helluva lot more teacher jobs than administrator jobs. I believe starting salaries are like $30K or less and peak out (even with decades of experience) at less than $60K.

If you don't want to be a principal or an assistant principal, if you prefer teaching kids and have a gift for it rather than being an educational bureaucrat, how well are you rewarded in NC?

I have noted that fifty percent of all public school teachers in NC leave the profession within five years, and many of them cite limited salary as a reason.

Are we now debating the relative value of the services provided by the law enforcement, administrators and teachers, and if so, who's arguing what ?
I would try to formulate an opinion, if I understood what it was we are supposed to be opining on.

"I would try to formulate an opinion, if I understood what it was we are supposed to be opining on."

Someone is obviously trying to make some sort of non-existent moral equivalence between police officers and academic people.

As usual, he's not doing very well.



Why in the world would an entry level teacher be deserving of the same salary as a police captain? Entry level officers start out at I am guessing between 28-32k a year. I compared police captains because in my mind a captain and school administrator have about the same level of duty with regard to the system. A chief and a county super-intendent have about the same level of duty. A captain and an entry level teacher have nowhere near the same level of duty. What is the pay rate of master policeman compared to a seasoned teacher? Again, sorry, I know questioning a blogger is a hanging offense round these parts, but I've given up on trying to get along with you people, so let the flaming begin.

I would say that there are quite a few unemployed people with college degrees in NC (currently with a 11-12% unemployment rate) that would view being a teacher, getting paid $60,000 per year for 10 months of work as being desirable.

If 50% of all public school teachers in NC are leaving the profession citing limited salary as the reason, then what work are they moving on to that has a higher salary and salary upside, and can they get those jobs with an degree in education? Jus' askin'. I would submit that many of those that leave the K-12 educational profession leave because of the public school environment. You know, lack of administrator support, lack of class room discipline, etc. And, a large part of those that leave GCS, leave and go to another system.

The teacher pay data is here: http://greensboro.rhinotimes.com/rawfiles/SchoolSalaries09.pdf
The city pay data (including the police) is here: http://greensboro.rhinotimes.com/rawfiles/CitySalaries09.pdf
If you're interested, have at it.

What I do wonder, however, is why four of the top seven paid teachers teach JROTC. I thought those teacher were retired military or furnished by the armed forces.

"Roch, grammar and punctuation aside, do you agree with the President's "stupidity" statement?" -- Tony

As I think we both know, Tony, the president said that, based on what he had heard reported at the time of his comments, "The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof somebody was in their own home."

So, for the writer of the letter above to premise his rant on a distortion: that the president called an individual officer stupid or said that police officers are stupid when he did not; when he was quite clearly referring to an action, not people is hyperbole. I, therefore, did not find the officer's manufactured indignation persuasive. I did find it funny that his facetious "admission" of being stupid included a lot of mistakes.

As for my opinion, I may not have chosen the word "stupidly," but I certainly know the difference between saying someone acted stupidly, as the president did, and saying a group of people are stupid, which he did not. One may tell me on some future day that I acted stupidly and I would not turn it into an affront to some group to which I belong unless I were trying to make political hay or something.

Roch, I think the president's statement must be viewed in the context of historic antipathy toward police within certain sectors of the African-American political and clerical communities. In addition, the cause of "profiling", if I remember correctly, is one that Obama espoused during a previous political life-- before he was alleged to have transcended race.

So when he said the policeman acted stupidly, it carried far more implications than addressing the policeman's behavior with that particular incident. His taking sides with Gates-- and what Gates was claiming-- was fairly blatant.

Are policeman truly acting stupidly when they respond to calls for service, when they investigate a break-in, when they are in the position of having to confront someone in a home after a break-in? Police have to do these things all the time, even when the suspect is African-American. So if they have to do these things all the time, according to Obama's logic, they must be pretty stupid. Right?

Also, the fact that he says police acted stupidly by arresting a man they knew was in his own home. Since when is it unethical to arrest someone in their own home? Especially for disturbing the peace. Now, yes, it would be stupid to arrest him for breaking and entering, but thats not what happend. Of course, Obama admitted to not knowing much with regard to facts, so I guess we can let his stupid remark slide this time. And no, the pres did not speak stupidly, he's just stupid.

There is no other explanation for what Obama said and did in this fiasco called Gatesgate..

The President of the United States, without knowing particulars, said something really stupid.

Our "post-racial" president has negatively impacted race relations, undermined the authority of police officers, and given further enablement of the entitlement/victimization crowd.

For a supposedly "smart' guy, he is indeed pretty stupid. We see ample evidence of this certainty in the disaster of his administrations decision making and his agenda policy push.

The incompetence and malfeasance of his words and actions these last six plus months is simply astounding.

The depth of the blindness of his sycophants and enablers to his multiple faiures is equally astounding.

"I think the president's statement must be viewed in the context of historic antipathy toward police within certain sectors of the African-American political and clerical communities." -- Joe

No doubt, Joe. Billy clubs and firehouses will create a lot of antipathy. Your straw men that follow do not include asking about what actually happen.

I don't think it's billy clubs and fire hoses that are anticipated any more, Roch. There is a deep resentment regarding being stopped and questioned, about being investigated and/or suspected. But police have to do their jobs.

Roch, the truth is blacks are not oppressed today. It is not a "white America" today. We have a black president, a black attorney general, a black mayor, a black county chairman, a black police chief, a black school superintendent. The fact is, most of these people would not be in power if it werent for the radical shift of attitude demonstrated by whites towards blacks. Yes, discrimination still exists, and ALL races experience it equally. Another thing, Martin Luther King never acted like a fool to the police and he got plenty done. The only reason people like Gates act that way towards authority is because they figure the police AREN'T going to resort to billy clubs and firehoses.

"they figure the police AREN'T going to resort to billy clubs and firehoses."

--As was demonstrated by a certain candidate for council this weekend. "I can say and do whatever I want and if anyone tries to stop, then it's PERSECUTION!"

Re-reading my first sentence about blacks not being oppressed, it sounds extreme, but I wan to elaborate on it. Yes, I know whites who do not respect blacks as a race. These same whites, while they would not marry a black person, they also believe that black folks have the same right to live as they do. I consider their attitude ignorant, but not oppressive. The same goes for blacks who do not respect white folks.

Now, I truly believe that a black man walking through a neighborhood considered "white", may fear being stopped and questioned by the police, but generally, they do not have to fear violence. A white man walking through a "black" neighborhood has to be on guard at all times, and does in fact have to fear being the victime of violence. Go cry to the cops about it, and you get "well you shouldn't have been walking around there."


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