CNN Democratic Debate

I watched the Democratic debate tonight from South Carolina.  Barack Obama was clearly out to settle some scores with respect to how Bill Clinton has been campaigning against him.  He debated strongly, advocated his positions, was very funny, and shined a spotlight on the Clintons' awful campaign tactics to diminish his candidacy.  He got in some digs at Hillary in the process of doing these things.

Hillary Clinton was positively filthy; but spoke clearly on matters of policy.  John Edwards did well from the standpoint of presentation, but I cannot be sure what effect he had.  He seemed to be ganging up with Hillary against Obama, who is leading the polls in SC.

I thought Obama won the debate.  He was much stronger than I had seen him previously in this type of setting.  His presentation was much less platitudinous than it had been in the past. 

I should emphasize, however, that I inevitably see the Democratic debates through conservative Republican eyes.  What matters most is what Democrats saw, and what they thought.

Comments

[Stormy]

Joe,

I didn't realized that another debate was on tonight, or I would have tuned in for a while. You made an interesting comment..."Hillary Clinton was positively filthy". What does that mean?

For the life of me, I don't understand why people don't see the Clintons for what they are. It's somewhat funny, but I have a very liberal spouse, and she is definitely going to vote for Hillary (Ralph Nader and John Kerry are her most recent choices, not to mention Jimmy Carter in 1976), and she will not listen to anything that I say about her or Bill. One time recently, I made a comment about Bill, and she said..."Bill Clinton is about the most degenerate man that I have ever seen, but he was a pretty good president". How do you deal with logic like that? I've always said that a person can not be a good president, if they do not have good character, so in my opinion Bill Clinton, and Hillary Clinton if she gets elected, can and would not be good presidents, because they are totally lacking in character. Period. I can take a person with faults. They may not be Harvard or Yale educated. They may not be the best toastmasters. They may not even be likable people. But, if they have good character, they will make good decisions and be good presidents.

I guess if I had to think of a good role model for president, I would nominate Harry Truman. He made a lot of mistakes and was very stubborn. He was only an artillery officer, not a commanding general. He was not a great orator. He was even liked by most people in his party. But, he was in touch with most of people, and, by golly, he had character.

Speaking of no character, Johnny Reid Edwards is running for VP, and he'll team-up with whosoever he feels will be a winner. He really doesn't care who it is, he just wants to be somebody. Of course, that is his problem...he's never been anyone, unless you call an ambulance-chasing trial lawyer, somebody.

[Stormy]

In case anyone reads my rant, I must state that my wife is a very good person with the highest of character. She is a polar opposite of Hillary Clinton. That's what puzzles me so. And, I suspect that there are many women like her who will vote for Hillary this year. It's a mystery to me that I will never solve. Funny, but she thinks of Obama as a little kid with no experience, running against Hillary with her vast experience????

[Fred Gregory]

Stormy, nothing much public, and sometimes private, escapes You Tube anymoe.

Your spouse a Clinton gal ? How have you not considered divorce or at least murder ? No, you haven't had those thoughts, right ?

Here is a clip of tensions flaring up between Clinton and Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9F1t9GQzA

[Stormy]

Joe,

Actually, no. My wife is one of the most decent and lovable people that you would ever meet. But, on the issue of the Clintons, well.. It seems that we are fundamentally opposed on political matters. We've been happily married for 7 years, which isn't too bad over 44 years. ;-))

[Everest]

Joe - now Obama is beginning to see the power of the Clinton machine...it's been waiting until it knew that Obama had a shot, and now it's getting cranked up. They have left a long line of decent (and some not so decent) public servants/private citizens in its wake. Obama, to his credit, seems like he will not go down without a fight, and I agree with you that he was very good in last night's debate...and she was, well, Hillary.

To Stormy's point about his spouse - my wife for many years has said that she just doesn't understand Bill's charm with the femaile electorate. He was (and is) simply a predator of females - and what most women wouldn't tolerate in a husband, they embrace as a president. Perhaps Stormy's house is Greensboro's version of James Carville/Mary Matlin - a great couple, with a great relationship...who "differ" politically!

[Joe Guarino]

Stormy, the allure of gender politics has been powerful among certain generations of women, and the Clinton's are masters at it. I don't know what the antidote is for those that are ensnared.:)

Certainly, to see Hillary in action, view Fred's YouTube; and the select moments from the debate are being highlighted on the television news programs.

[Joe Guarino]

Everest, I agree that this is already a horrendous race, and that the Clinton's will exhibit the most reprehensible brand of politics in order to win. And it is oh-so-clear that Bill wants to get back in the White House quite badly.

[Bubba]

"Everest, I agree that this is already a horrendous race, and that the Clinton's will exhibit the most reprehensible brand of politics in order to win. And it is oh-so-clear that Bill wants to get back in the White House quite badly."

I think Obama will be up to the task of handling this slime.

I also think this battle will ensure a Republican presidential win.

[Joe Guarino]

Bubba, it will be interesting to see how much longer it will go on like this. And you are right, Obama clearly handled himself very well last night in response to the barrage from Hillary and even Edwards. He appeared above the fray, and more statesmanlike than the others, even while getting in his jabs.

[Stormy]

AS I watch and hear these debates and interviews, it is clear that Obama had no idea what he was doing by taking on the Clintons. If he pushes any harder, the Clintons are going to start playing hardball. Yes, it has only been a game of slow pitch softball thus far. The outcome of this will be Hillary and Bill's victory in the Dem contest. I just do not see any way that Obama is going to be able to withstand the full Clinton Monty, if they have to bring it. If he resists too much, they'll destroy his political career forever. To-date, they haven't played hardball as they viewed Obama and Edwards as mere gnats to be swatted aside. If Obama plays along, he might be rewarded by being the party candidate in 2016.

Having disposed of Obama, the Republican candidate better be prepared for war, as that is what the Clintons will bring, if necessary. The Republican candidate better be vetted completely. If he has any vulnerability, the Machine will find and use it at the appropriate time. It's going to be ugly.

Having said that, I hope the nominee has the mettle to see it through to victory, and the American public clearly sees what the Clintons are in that war, and they are disgusted.

How can anyone possibly want another four years of the Clintons in power. Hillary and Bill will wreck our nation's economy for starters. God have mercy on us all.

[Joe Guarino]

Stormy, you are right that the Clinton's lead a Democratic machine, and that Obama has a difficult task ahead of him. The demographics are that the Clinton's have certain groups-- older voters, particularly women; Hispanics; blue collar/working class voters; and some blacks. Obama supporters are more young; male; affluent; and also increasing numbers of blacks. How this works in individual states may work out in Hillary's favor-- and remember, she also has a lock on delegates not selected through the primary system.

I suppose we may like Obama; but Hillary is probably the better opponent for Republicans to face, because she will unify us and is very unlikable among a large swath of the electorate. And traditional black Democratic voters may be embittered enough by the end of this process to decide they will just stay home. The Clinton's are doing things to Obama that Republicans would never be able to do without facing media criticism of a withering variety.

[Beau Jackson]

AS I watch and hear these debates and interviews, it is clear that Obama had no idea what he was doing by taking on the Clintons. If he pushes any harder, the Clintons are going to start playing hardball. Yes, it has only been a game of slow pitch softball thus far. The outcome of this will be Hillary and Bill's victory in the Dem contest. I just do not see any way that Obama is going to be able to withstand the full Clinton Monty, if they have to bring it. If he resists too much, they'll destroy his political career forever. To-date, they haven't played hardball as they viewed Obama and Edwards as mere gnats to be swatted aside. If Obama plays along, he might be rewarded by being the party candidate in 2016.

I wonder if there's a grassy noll in Obama's home town, the kind where blood runs "up" and not "down." My sister is very Liberal and I make it a point to remind her that Bill Clinton is an impeached president, but she still thinks he was a good president. Women are why I became an Engineer and not a psychistrist!

[Stormy]

Beau,

There is no accounting for the Bill Clinton Love Syndrome. None at all. I don;t think that is carrying over to younger women, though. They see him as a horny old goat with white hair and a pot-belly, not a rock star. But, he still knows how to play hand-grenade politics.

[Roger Greene]

The fact that he complimented Ronald Reagan and the Hildabeast brought that up, is a good reason to look at him more closely. Obama has some of Reagan's attitude I think. He may not be a closet conservative, but I think he'll be more so than expected by many of his supporters and opponents. His upbringing seems more the classic immigrant experience of coming here and through hard work making something of yourself. He doesn't seem to have a seething hatred of other conservatives in America like the left generally does. He will be a formidable general election candidate if he doesn't get too muddy wrestling with the Clintonites and can secure the Dem nomination.

[Joe Guarino]

I agree, Roger, that he would be formidable. His comment about Reagan seemed perfectly innocent-- it would be similar to a conservative acknowledging that FDR was a transformational leader-- which he was, for better or worse. And Hillary trying to imply guilt by association to the "slumlord" invites revisiting of all of the associations she and her husband have had.

[Roger Greene]

Joe I think he's going to have to be real careful in how engages the Hillary and Bill attack machine. They're past masters at it. He'll have to learn to turn that table on them or risk all the mud they sling sticking to him. It's almost not possible to avoid playing that game. It's a shame in a way, but he'll have to out-mudsling them in my opinion.

[Bubba]

I think there's too many people attuned to the Bill and Hillary show to allow the viciousness to go unnoticed.

That sort of thing will engender a huge backlash, and will effectively give the election to the Republican nominee.

[Stormy]

Joe,

That "slum lord" comment by Hillary was another racial shot at Obama. It was intended to remind people that Obama is b-l-a-c-k, otherwise, why use that term?

The Clintons have been using racial politics in this race that they usually reserve for the general election.

Obama better keep his head up, the Clintons don't just play hardball, debating with them is like juggling chainsaws.

[Joe Guarino]

Roger, Bubba, Stormy--

One of the interesting things is that what Bill Clinton is doing appears to be pretty much unprecedented, as far as I can tell. To have a President of the United States shilling for his wife and taking cheap political shots at her opponent is pretty low class. We have had relatives of presidents run before, but I don't believe we have ever had presidents conduct themselves this way.

And it was pointed out on another blog today the utter irony that this particular candidate for the presidency-- who has fashioned herself as a feminist-- must rely on her husband in this way.

[Stormy]

Joe,

People have commented that George H.W. Bush helped GWB when he was first running for president. I really do not recall that, but I suppose it could have happened. The BIG difference here is that Bill would be living in the White House, and he would be maintaining an office in the East Wing, or more likely, the West Wing. It's going to be difficult to know who is running the country. When was the last time that a former president ran for president as a surrogate? Make no mistake, Bill is running for a 3rd term via the back door. Hillary will be the figurehead, but Bill will be making the decisions. Scary, but that's what many people want!

But, as this campaign advances, Bill Clinton's behavior becomes more and more abnormal. I do not recall him acting this way when he was running before. The only way to describe it is bizarre.

[Joe Guarino]

Stormy, I think George HW Bush likely was lining up various types of support among the heavy hitters-- financial and within the GOP establishment-- behind the scenes for his son. But he certainly did not play a significant public role in the campaign. And to the extent that he was occasionally interviewed, it was all very subdued and tasteful. None of the trash talk.

[Roger Greene]

"And it was pointed out on another blog today the utter irony that this particular candidate for the presidency-- who has fashioned herself as a feminist-- must rely on her husband in this way."
I heard on FM 101.1 talk radio one day around the time she teared up in one of the debates that many were supporting her because she was in fact a strong woman. So desperately clinging to a serial philanderer to gain power constitutes a 'strong woman'? Who knew? I think next time they (her supporters or herself) play the feminist card Obama should subtly point that out.