The My Lai Analogy

Today's paper was replete with comparisons between recent events in Iraq and the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. 

I was a 10-or-11 year old year old boy when the proceedings against Lt. William Calley were reported widely, and I recall distinctly the adult discussion that was taking place around me on this matter .  The consensus was that something was wrong with regard to the response to this matter.  I specifically recall it being described as "a shame."

There was almost a fatalistic world-weariness that war is brutal on its participants, and that bad things are going to happen.  Korea and World War II were relatively recent memories, and the generations I heard discussing My Lai had fought in these wars.

Yes, we need procedures to assure that these types of events are less likely to recur, and their instigators should be held accountable in a proportionate manner-- but we should remain mindful of the extraordinary difficulties posed by wartime situations.

But even more importantly, we must be careful not to commit the error in logic implied in the opening statements of the Wikipedia entry to which I linked above.  We cannot take these unfortunate events, and then somehow generalize and amplify the Big Message they convey to suggest that the overall war effort is unworthy.  We cannot make general assessments of the war in Iraq (or in Vietnam, for that matter) on the basis of tragic events that do not reflect the overall pattern.

The media would be wrong to muster a drumbeat on these stories, but if they do in stereotypical fashion, the public should ignore it.

Comments

[Sue]

"the public should ignore it"

You're kidding, right? It's "one of those things" that happens? It's "a shame"??

C'mon, Joe. Don't jump on the uber-bandwagon that claims any mistake made by US forces should be swept away because to say it's bad means you "hate America" and "commit treason against soldier."

Don't do it, Joe. Please. We HAVE to know better.

[H Geschwind]

What strikes me is that whenever a car bomb explodes in a crowded street, market, etc. the ones killed are only referred to as "people" or "civilians" but never ever as men, women and children complete with names and ages.

Sure makes one wonder why...

[Joe Guarino]

Sue, what I was actually suggesting the public ignore is the media drumbeat. Let the processes run their course, don't dwell on it, and don't let it undermine the war effort.

H Geschwind, you raise a good point. Many more Iraqi's are being killed by other Iraqi's and terrorists.

[sean coon]

please explain to me why the war in iraq is worthy.

you have the floor.

[Brenda Bowers]

First let me say that NO war is worthy. Not one war in history has been worthy of the cost in human lives and the aftermath when those who survived try to go on with the horrid as part of their psyche. But you know, the good guys don’t start the wars it’s the bad guys who start them and the good guys who have to finish the Bully off. Muslim Terrorist had been ignored by the United States as long as the killing was not on our soil. We even let slide the killing of Americans as long it was “over there”. After 911 we got the wake up call finally.
As for My Lai I am old enough to have understood the entire ignominy. Books have been written trying to explain and justify it, as well as denigrate those who were involved. We who weren’t ever in uniform with someone trying to kill us, and that someone hiding behind women and children because as all fanatics they had no regard for life, really are in no position to judge the soldiers. Most of the young /old men who came back from Viet Nam refused to talk about what they had seen and done. Those who did however spoke of horrors we in our safe little American world simply can not comprehend. In this situation we have a group on their third tour of duty in an unorthodox war where the enemy is everywhere and could be anyone. They are not even safe back at base camp. The tension and fear coupled with a climate just this side of Hell must do terrible things to the mind and body. In this instance they were being shot at and they shot back and then called in air support to destroy the buildings. What are they to do about the women and children being in the houses if the enemy is using them as shields? What would YOU DO if your life was on the line?
The media is going to make a circus of this as they do everything. Joe is right, we should just ignore the whole thing and maybe the media will get on with reporting news. That people die in war is not news. It is an unholy fact and as long as there are bad guys out there there will be wars. We are fortunate to have so many young men willing to give their lives to protect our sorry butts quite frankly.

[chip atkinson]

Joe- not only is there a media drumbeat, it is a media with a disastrous record of poor follow through, misleading stories and anti-military bias.

I feel our war efforts are extraordinarily humane. We ended a horrible regime that oppressed, tourtured and slaughtered hundreds of thousands. I am proud that we have accomplished so much with the sacrifice of under 3000 troops- each of whom were proud to die for the freedom of others.

I wonder if we weren't there in Iraq, where would the outrage be over the horrible deaths of innocent Iraqis? The answer is that Americans who oppose the war could care less about Iraqi lives. How hypocritical for them to judge Marines at Haditha

And what about Vietnam? No one gave a damn when over a 1.5 million Cambodians were murdered after we left.

[Joe Guarino]

Thank you, Brenda and Chip, for your comments.

Sean, the war is worthy because 9/11 forced upon us the War on Terror. This was not billed strictly as a war on al Qaeda, but rather as a wider conflict in recognition of the fact that the tools of terror have been used against us and our allies for many years-- and that it mostly emanated from the Middle Eastern region.

Saddam's own behavior gave us ample justification-- supporting terror elsewhere (such as funding the families of Palestinian suicide bombers), and violating UN sanctions put in place after the first Gulf War. In addition, he had a record of atrocities against his own people and providing refuge for terrorists. He had previously developed capabilities for WMD's and the willingness to use them.

Finally, and I believe most significantly, there was a geopolitical angle. Make them fight on their "own turf", and they will be less likely to bring the fight here. Sow the seeds of democracy and accountable governments, and alter the political terrain in the Middle East to defuse terror.

Now, this endeavor has turned out to be difficult. But that does not mean it should not have been attempted.

[Bubba]

"This was not billed strictly as a war on al Qaeda, but rather as a wider conflict in recognition of the fact that the tools of terror have been used against us and our allies for many years-- and that it mostly emanated from the Middle Eastern region."

And of course, there are some people who want to confine the WOT to "al Qaeda" strictly. These are generally the same people who believe that it's really only a "police action" that's needed.

How soon they to forget the true nature of the struggle we face. That's evident in the type of questions that ask for a "defense" of the war in Iraq, and in the constant dis-information we have been fed ever since the Antique Media jumped off the war bandwagon as soon as it was convenient, in the summer of '03.

[Fred Gregory]

Joe, Bubba & Chip: YES !!

The NY Times started the editorial drumbeat today June 4, 2006. Don Surber responds here:

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2006/06/hard-look-at-haditha-editorial.html

Yes bad things happen in war. When US forces liberated Dachau on April 29, 1945, they killed in cold blood dozens of unarmed SS Waffen German soldiers who were surrendering had their hands raised . Patton spiked the courts martials. RTWT here:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/SoldiersKilled.html

[Joe Guarino]

Thanks, Bubbba. And Fred, that Dachau link is fascinating.

[Lex]

This kind of thing is almost inevitable in any war, a point I make here: http://home.earthlink.net/~lex.alexander/2006/05/full-automatic-or-rough-men-redux.html

What is NOT inevitable is how we respond to it. Honorable service people will report the incident, see that it is investigated, punish those responsible AND seek out whatever systemic problems (if any) might have contributed. In this case, we got at least two attempted coverups; those involved should face prison as well.

We can acknowledge all these facts without damning our invasion of Iraq.

[John Appel]

Defense Secretary Rumsfeld put it best a few years ago at a press conference in which he was hounded to respond to some off-the-wall media allegation about an incident in Iraq:
"The media is more interested in getting it first than in getting it right."
So cool off, sit back, and wait for the investigation to run it's course. Hell, they're not even defendants yet, so why don't we show these soldiers the same respect and presumption of innocence guaranteed to all defendants in our country?

[Fred Gregory]

More no drumbeat, drumbeat. Make some NOISE . YES !

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060604-093623-8379r.htm

[Joe Guarino]

Lex, the major area in which I disagree with you is the extent to which we should obsess over such incidents. They are regrettable and should be avoided. They should not be swept under the rug. But they also should not dominate public discourse to tarnish an otherwise worthy cause, regardless of the response.

John, thanks for your comments. I agree. And thanks again, Fred.

[Roch101]

John Appel,

Do you have a link to that Rumsfeld quote? The only place I can find is is in another post by you on another blog. Even trying variations, I come up empty with something like that attributed to Rumsfeld.

[John Appel]

Roch, I was watching the press conference when SecDef Rumsfeld said it. It was so "spot on" that I remember it very well. I don't know if it's quoted or transcribed anywhere.
If I can find it floating around out there in cyberspace somewhere I'll post a link.

[Fred Gregory]

And Mark Steyn is also right on:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn04.html

[Fred Gregory]

The Hell Of War: Why Haditha Is Not My Lai

http://www.slate.com/id/2143011/

[Joe Guarino]

More good stuff, Fred.

[DC]

"We sleep safe at night because brave men stand ready to deliver violence against those who wish us harm."
George Orwell

[Fred Gregory]

Tony Blankley explains how the incident at Haditha tells us much more about the media than it does about the Marines.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/media_danse_macabre.html

[Joe Guarino]

I agree with Orwell, DC. Thanks for passing along the quote.

And yet another great link from Fred Gregory!

[Fred Gregory]

Joe,

The Aloha state is heard from. Mahalo to Andy Walden, Hawaii Free Press.. " Haditha: Reasonable Doubt "

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f882c1b8-aa42-431f-83a6-0066e7629ace